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Instagram Live Q&A from Friday, April 3rd – Transcript

Kevin Boehm: 

Welcome everyone. My name is Kevin Boehm and I'm a restaurant worker and a restaurateur. I've been working with the Independent Restaurant Coalition (IRC) over the past several weeks as we banded together to create a unified voice in the effort to ensure relief for our industry. I'm here today with Chris Lamond, founder of Thorn Run Partners, a top 20 bipartisan government affairs and lobbying firm with offices in DC, LA and Portland who’s been working with the IRC. Chris is also involved in the restaurant business as his family owns nine restaurants in South Carolina. Our main purpose here today is to talk about the CARES Act and its impact on independent restaurants. We know several organizations have already hosted webinars on the topic, but we felt it was important to wait until we had clear language, not only from the bill text, but also from the Small Business Administration. 

My colleagues and I at the IRC, and Chris’s team at Thorn Run, wanted to make sure that we not only had the best understanding of the bill and its implementation, but also asked questions from the perspective of independent restaurant operators so we can bring you the best answers for your business. It is important to note that there are still several things in the bill that still need to be clarified. One thing that is clear through working on this over the past couple of weeks is there was a real learning curve for all of us. There was a learning curve for Congress and understanding our business and how our business model differs from other industries. And there was a learning curve on our end as we learned how Congress works. Our coalition formed quickly in response to a need for representation, but not quickly enough to get everything that restaurants needed into a bill that was already written. This current legislation, while providing some comfort, does fall short for ensuring that everyone survives this crisis in the long term.

So, this is a starting point, and our unified voice can be powerful in evolving it. This is partly why we chose this format, versus a larger webinar, because it gives everyone a voice and we encourage everyone to ask questions in the comments below. We'll also have a full recording at the end, so let's get to it.

Our main objectives today are: 

1) To understand the basics of the CARES Act, 

2) To give you a roadmap on how to take advantage of it, 

3) To point out some of the questions that remain in the current legislation, and 

4) To talk about what we're pushing for going forward and what could happen in the next phase of stimulus talks. 

With all that being said, I'd like to turn things over to the smarter person on this conversation to give a macro overview of where we currently sit. Chris, welcome. 

Chris Lamond: 

Thanks Kevin. I appreciate it. It's great to be with you guys today. I appreciate the opportunity to go over where we've been over the last couple of weeks, and where we expect Congress and the IRC to go as they look to legislation beyond phase three. Let me give a quick level set to where we are today and what we see from here in terms of additional federal packages to respond to the ongoing crisis. 

Phase three was passed last week, commonly called the CARES Act, which we'll talk most about today, was designed to prop up individuals and businesses who are struggling because of the COVID-19 crisis. Phase three was just the start; we're currently working to make sure the law is applied correctly and fully, and also beginning to make a specific request to Congress and the administration to make up for some of the shortcomings we see in phase three. Part of that effort is making sure that Congress and the administration understands how the restaurant business actually works.

We're not like everybody else. We know that when we are allowed to open our doors and when the state and local governments finally move past this and allow us to open, we won't be at full capacity right away. There will be a slow return in people's trust in being out in public. And there also may be a limit on occupancy from local or federal officials for a period of time, it may even be a long period of time, but we're not doing business as usual. We're in an industry with tight margins, we can't adequately train staff or revitalize the supply chain when times are slower, and Congress needs to understand all of that. We need safeguards to protect independent operators so that we can get through the entirety of this period. But to be clear, we're fighting like hell to make sure the restaurant industry gets all it deserves, and to make sure that we have a seat at the table when these discussions are taking place. So, Kevin, do you want to start with some questions?

Kevin Boehm: 

Yes, thanks, Chris. We have heard a lot about the loan and loan forgiveness programs included in CARES, can you walk us through what is available to the restaurant community? 

Chris Lamond: 

Sure. So let's start with the Paycheck Protection Program, commonly called PPP. It’s designed to enable employers to maintain their payroll during this crisis. Importantly, they designed the program to create the loan that is forgivable when certain factors are met by the employer. So the program works by first determining the maximum allowance, the maximum amount of the loan you're eligible for. And to determine that, you take your average monthly payroll from 2019, and the definition of what constitutes payroll is very generous and includes the following factors: salary, wages and commissions or tips, capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee. What you do include is the first $100,000 of those employees. For tips we recommend averaging an employee’s tips for one month and adding that to their hourly rates. The application actually uses this language: “a quote based on employer records of past tips, or in the absence of such records, a reasonable estimate of such tips” should be used. It also includes benefits for vacation and FMLA benefits, healthcare benefits, insurance premiums for employees. It also includes payment of any retirement benefits. Payroll definition also includes state and local taxes that are assessed on compensation. It does not include federal payroll taxes. So, then once you determine your average payroll for that one month, you multiply that by 2.5, and that was designed to capture 10 weeks or two and a half months of your payroll, and that amount becomes your maximum loan cap. And there's a $10 million cap that the legislation included when you're calculating your payroll.

Kevin Boehm: 

Chris, on payroll, does that include things like workers' comp. insurance, payroll, payroll company, and employer’s share of FICA taxes?

Chris Lamond: 

So it does not include workers' comp or payroll fees, or the employer’s share of the federal payroll taxes. It does include state and local payroll taxes, though. 

Kevin Boehm: 

What about bonuses? 

Chris Lamond: 

The bonuses are included as part of the definition out of the commission’s words, but there is a $100,000 cap that you need to make sure you're eligible for. 

Kevin Boehm: 

So loan forgiveness is a huge part of this. Walk us through how the forgiveness part of this works.

Chris Lamond: 

So, forgiveness is based on an eight week period after your loan is originated. Now we haven't completely defined what loan origination date means exactly. We've been working with the SBA, we've been working with Congress, to try to help us understand what loan origination date means exactly. And it may not be answered until we get additional guidance from the SBA, which should be coming, you know, perhaps next week. They issued some guidance late last night, it didn't include a definition of loan origination date. But, we're hopeful that loan origination date will mean when you are starting to draw down the money, not when you apply for the loan. So, we need some more clarity on that, but we don’t have the final answer right now. So, beyond the origination date, the entire loan is forgiven entirely if the following is determined: 

1) 75% of the loan proceeds are used to cover payroll costs, and 

2) employee and compensation levels are maintained as compared to the FTE headcount from the same period in 2019.

So, a few notes, because it's a little bit complicated. Employees don't have to be the same individual, but the full time employee headcount needs to be the same for that eight week period following loan origination date for either one of two date ranges: February 15, 2019 to June 30, 2019, or January and February of this year. The employer date range works best for them to compare that eight week average to that previous period to determine loan forgiveness. I also want to add that from the loan proceeds beyond the 75% requirement, for payroll, you can use the remaining 25% to cover mortgage interest, rent and utility costs for that eight week period after the loan is originated. Your loan forgiveness can be reduced if you decrease your full time employee headcount, and will be reduced if you decrease salaries and wages by more than 25% for any employee that made less than $100,000 in 2019. This is the stick they are using to make sure employers are using the money to rehire employees. 

Kevin Boehm: 

A quick follow up on that, it's a lot of info at once. So let me get this straight, even if we say the loan origination date means when we were allowed to withdraw the money, doesn't that still mean we could be asked to hire back employees before we even open by the state? That's not nearly long enough, is there a chance to extend that period within the next stimulus bill?

Chris Lamond: 

Yeah, the unfortunate answer to that is yes. The way the bill was drafted, and it wasn't drafted perfectly, puts restaurants that can't open in a tight spot. We've been talking with members and staff about this issue. It's a top priority for the IRC to fix either through guidance from the SBA or through extending the program in phase four. We do recommend that you talk to your local banker on how they're going to interpret the issue. We're asking for everyone to kind of understand that there'll be some bumpy roads here. We don't know exactly how the program's going to be played out. But, as more guidance becomes available, we think some of these questions will be answered soon.

Kevin Boehm: 

Speaking of bumpy roads, Chris, a lot of people are applying today, and there seems to be some problems with it. What are you hearing about that?

Chris Lamond: 

Yeah. So we are hearing from the administration and banks who are concerned about the guidance that's been made available by the SBA. So, there's been some trepidation on their side. That's one of the reasons we saw the fixed rate of these loans, which was at a half percent go to 1% last night, was the latest guidance they added. We're hopeful that banks, once they get the proper guidance, will move forward with the program and accept as many applications as they can.

Kevin Boehm: 

What about the fees and length of the loan? What happens if I don't meet all of the forgiveness provisions?

Chris Lamond: 

Okay. So, as I mentioned a minute ago, the interest rate is 1% and fixed. All payments for that loan are deferred at least 6 months, and with the forgiveness period only an eight week period after the loan is originated, borrowers will then begin to apply for that notice after that period is ended and the hope, and I can tell you the congressional intent, and administration has made this clear also, that the hope is that all these loans are forgiven, that you can use those costs for payroll to get people back to work or for rent or your mortgage. But the term of the loan is only two years right now. So, that's the term and rates you're looking at if you're not able to get the entire loan forgiven. That's another area we're fighting from the IRC is that we turn that two year term back to a 10 year term, which was included in earlier drafts of the bill. So, that's a top priority for us, as well, that we're working on.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. So for those who don't know, how does this all work? When do I apply for the loan? When do I apply for forgiveness to the loan? And how do I apply?

Chris Lamond: 

So, you can start applying today. Your local bank is the vehicle which SBA has designated to accept applications from small businesses. We're hearing anecdotally that they're getting a large number of applications already today and we encourage you to start thinking about submitting your own application. But you should have some basic understanding of what you need in hand to apply. The sba.gov website already has the application available for you to review. We're going to put it on IRC’s website saverestaurants.com. And because the maximum amount of the amount of the loan is based on payroll, you should probably already get your payroll records for the entirety of 2019 in hand and begin to think about what the average payroll per month cost is as you determine your maximum loan rate. On forgiveness, again, the eight week clock is paramount when you are thinking about applying for a loan. Once that period is over, they will give you instructions on how to actually apply for forgiveness. It'll be a document very similar to the application we imagine, and will require that you hire the same amount of full time FTE employees, and would require you to show certification about the pay rates to make sure that their pay was not reduced below that 25 percent threshold that was set by the law.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. And to be clear to everybody, Chris, when you use the word forgiveness, this is basically interchangeable with a grant, right? The loan becomes a grant at the time of forgiveness for the portion that's forgivable.

Chris Lamond: 

That's right. It was designed to be a mechanism that allowed members of Congress to say this is not a bailout, this is a loan, with the expectation that it will be forgiven. And those are just the terms that they use to make that clear.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. What other opportunities, like tax rebates, are there that are available?

Chris Lamond: 

Yeah, so there's two other opportunities we should touch on. The first is, it's called the EIDL Loan Program at the SBA. It stands for Economic Injury Disaster Loans, an existing loan program at the SBA. It has a maximum of $2 million that you can borrow from the SBA. Interest rates are higher than the PPP. Interest rates for the EIDL loan are 3.75%, but the maximum term is three years, so it's a much more attractive term than the PPP loan. But an important part to talk about this loan is the CARES Act allowed for the EIDL program to establish essentially a $10,000 grant program for applicants who apply for EIDL loans will be provided a $10,000 upfront grant from the SBA after they receive the application. You can apply for both the PPP and the EIDL loan, but you can't use the funds for the same purpose. If you apply for both the EIDL and the PPP, you can convert the $10,000 to the PPP loan and have it forgiven as well. So, there's no harm in applying for both. In fact, if you apply for both, you can get that $10,000 in your hands pretty quickly. And then, again, apply the PPP if you want to.

Kevin Boehm: 

Yes. If you need money right away, $10,000 helps you right away, that's a good option.

Chris Lamond: 

That's right. The second one is an employee retention credit that was established by CARES. It's a fully funded tax credit for employers that is equal to 50% of qualified wages that they pay their employees from March 12th through December 31st of this year. The maximum credit an employer can receive is $5,000 per employee. So as you calculate the number of employees, you can kind of determine how much you're eligible for and that payroll tax credit. The new credit is only available if you fall into one of two categories though: 

1) the employer’s business is fully or partially suspended by government order due to COVID-19 during the calendar quarter or 

2) the employer’s gross receipts are below 50 percent of the comparable quarter in 2019. Unfortunately, most of us are going to be eligible. 

Kevin Boehm: 

Because a lot of these hurdles are tied to employment, I just want to be clear about something. If I asked someone to come back and they decline, am I still penalized for that?

Chris Lamond: 

No, it doesn't have to be the same person. You have to get to the same FTE numbers.

Kevin Boehm: 

Okay. How is the portion of the PPP that I don't use for payroll, rent or utilities termed out?

Chris Lamond: 

Yeah, so it's a two year loan, again at that 1% APR. Again, the intention of Congress is that the entire loan amount will be forgiven – but if, for some unfortunate reason you're not able to have the entirety of the loan forgiven, you are subject to the two year term at 1%. And again, as part of the IRC legislative response, we're going to be asking that term be brought back about 10 years as it was designed in the original bill. 

Kevin Boehm: 

Which loans are personally guaranteed?

Chris Lamond: 

PPP is not personally guaranteed. EIDL loans are personally guaranteed above $200,000.

Kevin Boehm: 

Okay. I know a lot of people have management companies, I have a management company. Is that also eligible?

Chris Lamond: 

Yeah. If the company holds employees and there's payroll costs that they cover, they're eligible to apply and have that money forgiven.

Kevin Boehm: 

There've been a lot of discussions of business interruption insurance, most notably Keller's lawsuit. Is this a viable pursuit?

Chris Lamond: 

So the insurance companies and their trade associations have proposed to Congress a relief fund that would be administered by a third party. It would appear to receive applications from businesses whose BI claims are being denied by the virus-clauses in their policy. It's unclear how Congress will respond to this proposal. But it's clearly something we should be keeping an eye on, and track the progress. Of note, our letter to Congress did mention the desire for Congress to look into this issue as a number of our businesses are impacted by this, I guess lack of coverage in their policy.

Kevin Boehm: 

So payroll forgiveness is only for employees making less than $100,000. If I have someone who makes $125K, then does that forgive all but the $25K? 

Chris Lamond: 

Yes. 

Kevin Boehm: 

Okay. What if someone has multiple leases on a space? I.e., they rent a separate office. Does the PPP forgive all of them?

Chris Lamond: 

Yes, as long as that rent is being paid for by the same LLC that's applying for the loan, it is.

Kevin Boehm: 

Okay. For people who have existing SBA 504 loans, are there provisions within CARES that help them?

Chris Lamond: 

Yes. If you have an existing SBA loan, you will be allowed a six month period of forgiveness. So they are recognizing that if you already have an existing loan, they are allowing six months of those payments to be forgiven. So again, you should talk to your banker about that if you have an existing SBA loan already in place.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. Do we know if they're confirmed, if the loan forgiveness will be taxable income?

Chris Lamond: 

Correct. It's not treated as taxable income.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. We'd love now to pick some Instagram questions. It seems like there've been a lot coming through. This first question, Chris: “I'm a restaurant owner. I'm not open for business. What is the point of taking this loan?”

Chris Lamond: 

That's a good question. And you know, you should be thinking through a lot of the issues you have in terms of costs you're covering. The intent of this effort was to make sure employers have the opportunity to quickly rehire their employees. So the intent of the program is to make sure that you have an opportunity to do that. We are trying; the IRC is very, very strongly encouraging Congress to extend that period out until we can open. So we have an opportunity to actually get revenue in the door to cover all the other costs we have beyond employee salaries. So we're working really hard to make sure Congress understands that fact and that in phase four they correct some of these issues that make it really hard for us to take advantage of the opportunities that were made available in this.

Kevin Boehm: 

Yeah, I'll just say as a restaurateur, I think you have to apply, right now there's not clarity on what origination means. Does that mean when you apply, does it mean when you're approved? Does it mean when you draw the money? But I think because there’s $350 billion dollars there, there are some fears that that money's going to run out. I think you have to apply for that money, and hopefully we'll get clarity very soon on what that origination means and hopefully it’s when we draw the money. The next question, we have: “Some banks aren't accepting applications or are set up yet. Do we know when this will be resolved?”

Chris Lamond: 

Yes. So, we're hopeful soon. The SBA only gave guidance this week, on Tuesday, for banks to follow. And, again, as we noted earlier, some banks are not participating. Most are, and we're hopeful that once the final guidance comes out that a lot of other banks will get involved. But I think there's, you know, a lot of social media out there right now talking about applications that have been receiving an amount of loans that have been already submitted. So I think a lot of banks are already involved. And we're just hopeful that more will be.

Kevin Boehm: 

So I've seen this question come up a few times on there. Chris, how does that EIDL just roll into your PPP? If you take the 10K, how does that happen?

Chris Lamond: 

So you add that 10,000 into your loan amount and that becomes forgivable as well. So it's designed this way to make it a seamless rollover transfer when you’re applying for your forgiveness.

Kevin Boehm: 

Yes. So to repeat, you can apply for the EIDL and the PPP with no worry. Take the 10,000 from the EIDL and it seamlessly rolls in. How does PPP work for seasonal restaurants?

Chris Lamond: 

Okay, so there are provisions included in the legislation that take this into account. So the main sticking point seems to be how do you determine your average monthly payroll to determine that maximum loan amount. So here's what they set up. For the period of time between February 15th, 2019 and June 30th, 2019, that's the period in which you use for your average payroll cost. So it's not all of 2019. It's, it's February 15th through June 30th. For new businesses, this is also a question we get, the average, if you weren't in business in 2019, what they've established is you can use that January and February payroll period of this calendar year as your average payroll. 

Kevin Boehm: 

How do we address part-time versus full time employees for PPP? Has that been defined?

Chris Lamond: 

Yes, so they're just using the full time equivalent number, and essentially counting part-time as full-time employees. 

Kevin Boehm: 

Okay. Can you put family members on the payroll to meet FTEs? Is this risky?

Chris Lamond: 

That’s a tough one. Good question. So, you know, one of the arguments we're making is that, with the unemployment insurance level so high for the next four months as determined by the CARES Act, one of the cases we're making is that we're having a hard time getting employees to come back to work. That's another issue that needs to be addressed. I'll just point to my previous answer that it doesn't have to be the same employee that was counted in 2019. It just has to be an employee.

Kevin Boehm: 

Got it. Somebody just asked a great question on here. “What if you opened in February or March of this year?”

Chris Lamond: 

So what they're doing is again, allowing you to use your most recent payroll information to determine your average payroll. So there's a lot of questions that have been coming up like this. We got another question from someone else who had a really big hiring spree in February and how could they use, you know, the previous month to their advantage so that their payroll numbers don't look skewed. But if you just opened up, you use the latest information you can provide them to the best of your ability.

Kevin Boehm: 

So this is a really good question somebody asked: “If there's a delay with their bank, are they running the risk of getting closed out?”

Chris Lamond: 

We are very concerned that the $350 billion provided for the PPP program will run out. That's why we're encouraging everybody to apply as quickly as they can. We've been in contact with members already to talk about their plans to expand on that 350 billion. In fact, the IRC letter will specifically call for additional funding to be included in phase four. Every indication that we've received is that they recognize that the 350 billion will go quick. As you see the unemployment numbers coming out from the federal government this week, that hits home too. So, they understand there's a need to expand that out, and we're hopeful that they take that under consideration when they write phase four.

Kevin Boehm: 

So there are a lot of restaurants out there where, you know, a majority of the labor force are the owners of the restaurants, especially in small restaurant situations. We have a question, “Can owners apply for unemployment? If the owner was on a payroll, can they get money from PPP based on their own salary?” Yes, as long as it's under 100K right?

Chris Lamond: 

If they're a W2 employee, yes. If they're an owner taking compensation in other ways, they should check with their attorney and their bank on how each lender is treating that. That really wasn't covered in the legislation, so I encourage you to check with your bank on how they interpret that.

Kevin Boehm: 

Yes. But Chris, if they're not taking it, not as distribution, but if they're a W2 employee of their own restaurant or a 1099, they should be able to, correct?

Chris Lamond:

Correctly. Exactly. If they’re W2, definitely.

Kevin Boehm: 

You know, let's talk a little bit, there's a lot of questions on here about rent relief from landlords. Mostly just people asking, “What do we do about rent relief for landlords?” I know it's a very broad question.

Chris Lamond: 

Yes. So we'd encourage you to talk to your landlord. We don't know if there'll be any congressional action on rent abatement or rent rebates. It's something we've talked to Congress about and have taken their temperature on what's basically happening and that in that regard. But we encourage you to really kind of reach out to your own landlords and see what accommodations they may be making. But as of right now, the existing legislation didn't include that – except, you know, we are encouraging Congress to consider that in the future.

Kevin Boehm: 

I'll just say as a restaurateur, we put out a letter to our members to begin a dialogue with them. You know, ask them to put a freeze on rent, and are asking all of them for abatement during this process. How do you advise we compute the loan? Do we combine payroll, rent taxes?

Chris Lamond: 

So the maximum loan amount is only based on payroll costs. Given this amount allows you to use payroll costs and rent, and utilities and transportation costs – but remember, 75% of the loan proceeds must be used on payroll. So that's the ceiling that they've set on the loan resources being used for payroll. So anything beyond that, you can use for rent and utilities and transportation. And again, maybe another reason why you might want to get an EIDL loan, you can't use the loan proceeds for the same purpose. You can't get a PPP loan and an EIDL loan and use both for payroll. But you might be able to use an EIDL loan for restocking inventory or ongoing costs you've had as you've been closed. So another reason to look at both loan programs is that it allows you some flexibility as you get started up again. 

Kevin Boehm: 

If you are about to open a restaurant, can you get relief?

Chris Lamond: 

If you haven't opened up yet – no, not under the Paycheck Recovery Program. There are SBA loans available for sure. But you've had to already be in business to participate in the PPP.

Kevin Boehm: 

Someone’s asking about staff and unemployment receiving state unemployment. Do they get an additional $600 a week from federal as well?

Chris Lamond:

Yes. So any worker who's been laid off can qualify for their state unemployment. And the federal government through the CARES act added another $600 on top of that state unemployment number. So I’ll just pick a number out of the hat – if your unemployment benefits in the state of Maryland are $250, your new unemployment benefits for this four month period that's been established will be $650.

Kevin Boehm: 

Someone's asking, “Is there a calculator somewhere to put all these calculations together when you're figuring out these loan applications?” I think there are several of those that exist out there. I don't know about you, Chris, but I think we can certainly put one of those up on saverestaurants.com.

Chris Lamond: 

Yes, I've seen some banks put out spreadsheets that allow you to input your payroll costs and it helps you with a calculator. It’s probably a little bit daunting to come up with, but as long as you remember a couple of things: you remember that $100,000 cap and you remember all the allowable payroll expenses like benefits and leave and retirement benefits and state and local taxes. You can get a ballpark figure and remember that's just your maximum loan amount that you’re determining. You don't have to apply for the whole thing. That's just the maximum you're allowed to apply for.

Kevin Boehm: 

Someone just asked, “Is the eight weeks started approval or when do you draw the money?” This is the million dollar question right now. Or the $10 million question with a $100 million question. We don't know the answer to that. The language they put on there was at the time of origination and we don't have a real definition on that. Right, Chris?

Chris Lamond: 

That's right. I'd really encourage you to talk to your bank about that point. Because what that does, if we get a very broad interpretation of that definition, it allows us to really act like a line of credit where you can receive the loan and then wait until you're allowed to reopen, hopefully sooner than later and then begin to draw down those funds to pay employees.

Kevin Boehm: 

Somebody wrote, “Is there anything stopping employees from just rehiring employees at the end of June?”. I think they might be confused about the way it works. 

Chris Lamond: 

Well, so there's this June 30th deadline in the legislation that allows you to compare your full time equivalent numbers at June 30th to last year's numbers. It's unclear how that computes with the previous ratios you were asked to fill out for forgiveness. The forgiveness provisions were pretty clear that the eight week FTE number needs to equal an equivalent number from 2019. February 15th through June 30th, 2019 or January and February of 2020. So, we need a little bit more guidance on the SBA about that specifically, because it is written in such a way that makes it unclear as to if you’re June 29th – do you just hire everybody back? We don't think that was the intention of the law. And we know it from talking with staff on the Hill, but it's a little bit grey as to what that means.

Kevin Boehm: 

Someone said – this is the last question we're taking guys – ”We've only been open for 18 months. Our P&L is still not showing profit. Will this affect our approval to PPP? 

Chris Lamond:

So the loans are guaranteed by the federal government at a 100% level. A local lender will not have any risk in the game, there's no personal guarantee that employers are asked to put up for the PPP program. So, we're hopeful that those two factors, equal to the idea that an application based on the parameters within the application, equal approval.

Kevin Boehm: 

So thank you Chris. Thank you to everyone who participated today. I’d like to say in closing that I've been avoiding the question, “How are you doing?” these last few weeks, as I'm pretty sure everybody here is in various stages of anger, confusion, shock, sadness, and anxiety. And I think we can take some comfort in the fact that we're kind of all in this foxhole together. We are collateral damage to this virus. It doesn't matter if your one 10-table restaurant or a restaurant group, COVID-19 does not discriminate. It's devastating for all of us. I think it's important, though, to stay hopeful, keep moving forward and looking forward to the day when we can all get back to work. I think that's going to be a pretty joyous day. We hope you found today helpful. We're going to share as much information as we can on saverestaurants.com, including a transcript of today's discussion, and a video copy will be on @IndpRestaurants right here on Instagram. So thank you so much for joining us. Stay healthy. Stay safe. Our very best to all of you.

Chris Lamond: 

Thanks, Kevin. 

Kevin Boehm: 

Thanks Chris.